Debate #1-The Trinity
I recently had a very small debate on another blog. I wanted to expand that to a full fledged debate NOT an argument. I know there is a lot of disagreement on the Trinity, so I want to debate it with some of you, all are welcome. First of all, what do you think of the trinity?
#1
1) Three seperate beings united as one
#2
2) God is the same as God the father, there is no other.
3) And Christ and the Holy Spirit are just stages of Him.
If you have another belief, just explain it and we'll try to have a decent debate. =D
posted by Keith M. @ 4:58 AM
12 comments
12 Comments:
I prefer to use mostly Biblical terms, of which "trinity" is not one. But you will probably find that we are in agreement about the nature of each "member" of the "trinity".
God is Spirit. He is in charge of everything. In terms of his rule and authority, he is often called "Father".
Jesus is completely God, only he came in the flesh. We call him the Son. All authority has been given to him.
The Father is in authority over the Son, but these two are not different in nature and being, simply in purpose and authority. Jesus can correctly be said to be the incarnation of God as a man.
Because the Father-Son relationship is confusing, some have denied the divinity of Christ, but this is wrong. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it isn't true. Jesus is God.
God has given us his Spirit to live in us and teach us as well as comfort us and help us in other ways. This we call the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit of God, also called the Spirit of Christ.
How's that, Keith?
Perhaps it would be helpful to think of the Father as God in his normal state and of the Son as God incarnated in a man, or in the Bible's words "come in the flesh".
The Father is God as we usually think of him. The Son refers to what we get when God "empties himself" (Philippians 2 I think) and becomes a man, making himself a servant. However, he has been given all authority on heaven and on earth. He is truly God.
"See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;"
-Colossians 2:8-10 (NASB)
Words like "in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" and "He is the head over all rule and authority" make the identity of Jesus crystal clear.
As for the Holy Spirit, I don't understand why there's any debate about that since the Bible calls it the "Spirit of God" and the "Spirit of Christ".
Well Austin, I see your points. I agree with you to some extent. I believe that God the Father and Jesus are two seperate persons, John 3:16 as common as it might seem proves this. When John the Baptist baptized Christ, we see all three of them all at once. The Spirit as a dove, the Father speaking from heaven, and Jesus as a man. God is technically ALL THREE. Not just the Father, they all unite to form God.
I don't see where we disagree. I just think that the trinity model is one way of trying to understand these different representations of God in the Bible. It's like an analogy to help us understand the concept, but people can over-stress their models. That's called being loud where the Bible is quiet. Off the topic of the trinity, you will find that many churches have doctrinal statements that focus more on what details they have come up with than on what they believe is clearly revealed in the Bible. Membership requires agreement with their speculations. You may not be asked to believe in the resurrection (an essential doctrine of the faith), but you have to believe any number of made up stories about the way certain pastors have decided things work. Sorry, forgive my rambling...
It's interesting to study how God appears in the Bible. Sometimes you will see him coming as "the angel of the LORD". In Abraham's case, God visited once as three people (or possibly one with two angels). Jacob also wrestled with God in some sort of tangible form, and saw his face. But this wasn't his usual face, just one he took on while he was being all physical and what-not. After all, Jesus said that no one has seen God.
I've commented on several of your past posts, now that I've seen them.
I thought this was how it was going to come about, I think that a lot of people are in agreement about the trinity, but they just are getting confused about how to say it. =D
That's true of many beliefs, Keith. You have just discovered the secret of the universe (er...not really):
Sometimes people don't agree because they don't understand each other. That's why I defend other people's arguments - sometimes critics just don't understand.
"Blessed are the peacemakers"
-Jesus
Yeah, we shouldn't always be worried about why such in such likes the Dems, and we don't (or vice versa) does it really matter? will fighting about it sharpen eachother like iron sharpens iron?
Keith, if you manage to figure out why people like the Dems (or even are Dems), then you will know the true secret to the universe. As for me, I'm clueless.
I think people like dems because they think if they themselves can have a say in the universe, they will have some power or something, oh well. It's like trying to figure out woman right?
I don't know about that, I kind of like girls.
*duh*
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